Staff Blog
May the cops get two hours alone with him before anybody realizes he’s been apprehended
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| You don't respect a cop's life? I don't respect yours. |
| Pa Historical and Museum Commission |
Well, the plague of silence-protected violence has officially overwhelmed our civic immune system. All the prayer services in the world won't change that fact, unless we're finally willing to make some tough calls that go beyond even stopping and frisking, regardless of what a shameful figure-head of a top cop and mayor say might happen to community relations.
Last May, in the wake of the assassination of Police Officer Gary Skerski, I wrote a column calling for gun checkpoints. This week, in the wake of the assassination of Police Officer Chuck Cassidy, it's important to reiterate those thoughts considering the whole "war zone" angle has gone from sorta-rhetoric to a cold reality.
If the U.S. Supreme Court says it's legal for police to make people prove they aren't drunk without probable cause, then they need to be empowered to make people prove they're not illegally armed, too.
Police should be permitted to pick corners in known hot spots, stop any car passing by and search it for a weapon. They should also be permitted to pat everybody in that car down, and to frisk anybody who has the dumb luck of walking by at the wrong time. Should they cry foul? Well, if it takes a lawsuit against Philadelphia to become a test case, what better city is there to put on a national stage in the fight against senseless violence? ...
Just look back at the night Solomon Montgomery allegedly burst into Pat's Cafe wielding a sawed-off shotgun, demanded money from the patrons and fatally shot Officer Gary Skerski through the neck so he could flee the scene.
With one of their respected peers dead, officers fanned out across the city looking for anybody who matched the suspect's description.
During a manhunt that included countless traffic stops, they searched potential suspects and their vehicles. During at least four of those stops, they found illegal weapons. Illegal weapons that probably would have never been seized hadn't a cop been killed. Illegal weapons that probably would have been used in the commission of another crime, on another day.
Does the seizure of four guns make Philadelphia any safer? Marginally, at best. But if they paved the way for police officers to be armed with another weapon against the violence plaguing the city, they'd be the most important criminal seizures in our history.
As for the fat-boy scumbag who decided, at 10:30 in the morning, to murder an honorable man who dedicated his life to protecting his fellow Philadelphians, I also need to hearken back to the Skerski case. Another excerpt prefaced by the thought that anybody who's protecting said scum-bag should be held on murder charges as well:
Some people deserve to die. Officer Gary Skerski wasn't one of them, but the soulless scumbag who blasted the 46-year-old father of two with a sawed-off shotgun is. And the sooner he's put down, the better off we'll all be.
For the proper justice to be doled out, this unnamed cop killer can't be taken into custody. Otherwise, an animal's life will be spared while Skerski's wife and young children forever relive the day they buried their hero.
Sorry, but I'm done worrying about civil rights and people whining about inequities in death-penalty convictions.
If you kill a cop, you should lose your life.
Anybody who says otherwise is an enabler, with the blood of two beloved police officers on their hands.
It's no longer up for debate.
So glad to see that Al Gonzalez and Karl Rove are off of unemployment now, though it’s a bit surprising to see them blogging for City Paper.
Wow, interesting connection there, ThomasT. So, because I believe that a cop killer should be subject to execution, and say so publicly, I’m a secretive, lying enabler of idiots?
Having some trouble following your logic there.
My Will: Were I to become a murder victim I want someone to avenge me. I don’t want my killer living another day to be pampered in prison. I don’t want him enjoying meals, reading a book, Watching TV, masturbating in his cell, nor breathing air. If you haven’t the balls to do that… step aside and let those who have give like for like to these miscreants.
Nice try! Pick the least offensive line from what I quoted of your post and pretend that that must have been what I was referring to.
No, it was the title’s suggestion that the killer deserves extra-judicial punishment, the cowardly assertion that civil rights don’t matter when a heinous crime has been committed, and the accusation that any detractors from your opinions are supporters of the criminals that struck me as pathetically Rovian.
You can support the death penalty if you want, and it’s easy to do so in cases where the crime is this heinous and the guilt crystal clear (though note that this post came way before any details had been released about how the suspect had been identified, and certainly before his confession today). But don’t pretend that the death penalty system in this country isn’t irreparably broken just because you want to see one bad guy fry. Stand up and be a man and say that you don’t give a crap if the government kills some innocent people if it means that vengeance will be served on this one.
Hickey, You are kind of enabling the very idiots ThomasT. points out by imitating them. You came close to pulling a perfect Rove with your use of the sensational bit about the blood of two cops being on the hands of those who disagee with you (”It’s no longer up for debate.”). You only fell short because you failed to link Fatboy to al Qaeda. (And that’s another point, everyone needs to stop referring to everything now as “war-zones” and every criminal as a “terrorist”. Surely its unintentional but its starting to sound Onion-ish.) This cop killer certainly deserves a punishment that fits the crime — no one disagrees with that. But say the cops rough him up behind closed doors and then say he does get the death penalty. Is that going to change the current sad state of affairs in Philly? Is that going to prevent this from happening again? That is the “debate” that should be had and emotion needs to stay on the fringe of it. In the meantime its such a waste of precious time and minds and a disservice to the community to just jump to that simplistic conclusion that produces no long-lasting results.
Ron Stokes, you reading too much Shakespeare/comic books or do you really think that mighty highly of yourself? Your will request, should you be murdered, has to be one of the most arrogant and selfish things I have ever read. I have to assume your death will be sad enough to your loved/liked ones, but then you want to make it is even sadder (and drag out the mourning process even longer) by imposing such a task? All I can say is that I am glad I do not know you. Someone who insists on such a thing (something that just makes sure they are still the center of attention AFTER they die) may want to start getting over themselves now.
Feel free to comment, Tina, when you move back to Philadelphia. Until then, accept the fact that I think cop killers deserve to die, and won’t waste my time playing semantic games like the rest of the do-gooders of the world.
And, ThomasT, your knee-jerk woe-is-the-capital-punishment-system stance struck me as pathetically, well, pathetic. I believe what I believe, and couldn’t care less if anybody disagrees that cop killers should be put down like horses that break their legs at the track. That has nothing to do with a “broken” system, because I’d put down rich white cop killers just as quickly.
That’s rich — tell me I can’t comment when I lived/went to school/worked there longer than your current tenure. But let me ask, does do-gooders = evil doers?
Yes Tina, I am arrogant and selfish… I fought in Nam and spent 30 years as a cop in Philly. I worked at the 39th District with Chuck Cassidy. So I believe I’ve earned that self-centeredness. Like I said, have you not the balls to put an animal to sleep… get the hell out of the way! …By the by, there is no such thing as “too much Shakespeare”.
Yo Thomas T.. Rovian? Ha Ha Ha! allow me to throw your heartbeat out of fib with a few other terms. BlackWaterish, Haliburton-type, Cheyney, Rumsfeld, Bush. Will someone please dial 911 for Thomas T?
If a cop gets killed on the job thats his/her problem. Too f***ing bad. Boohoo.
There are a lot more dangerous jobs than law enforcement; some of them are far more important.
Treating cops as if they’re more valuable than everyday citizens demeans the very people they are meant to serve and protect.
Well, here’s the thing. The cop-killer has to go through the same justice system as every other criminal. You can’t advocate for the death penalty in a vacuum. Either you support the racist, broken system or you don’t.
And how about backing up the other Constitution-bashing of your original post, which as I said in #4 is what’s really galling from someone who makes his living off the First Amendment.
If that’s what it takes to ensure that cop killers are executed, then yes, I support a broken system. Here’s the bottom line: I wrote this on emotion. What I should’ve titled it was “May the cops get two hours alone with whoever committed this crime.” Yes, the confession would make it easier to justify the initial title, but fine, I’ll concede that I do support the rule of law. Which is why I believe cop killers should be put down like the dogs they are.
I’m not so blind that I don’t see the anti-capital-punishment people are using a methodical approach to dismantling the entire system, regardless of whether that means protecting animals like ADMITTED cop killers. Not everybody is cleared by DNA. In fact, some of them WANT to be executed rather than spend a life behind bars which is more cruel than jabbing a needle in their deserving arm.
My point in saying there’s no debate is the fact that I really don’t care if people disagree. I know what I consider justice and nothing foes can say will change that.
“Either you support the racist, broken system or you don’t.”
Nice strawman.
Huh, I really don’t see why anyone is surprised by Mr. Hickey’s reaction, it’s the typical reacation of a first-class citizen…so to speak.
May the cops have two hours with him…I wonder if you feel that way for anyone who’s killed children.
I heard somewhere that the job of the police is to serve and protect the state (and it’s corporations) not necessarily the citizens of the state. Seeing is that people basically will search the world for a fine-tooth comb for the killer of a police officer, yet we have cold cases for civilians that go on for decades.
I’m not anti-police, but shouldn’t we all remember the reality is that this job, as well as a military, is a position where you risk your life every day. Yes, the cop killer should be punished, but people don’t go into “shocked and appalled mode” when someone dies in the line of duty.
I won’t comment on the death penalty, but I will say this, one killer dies, another will take its place, think about it.
and Ron, you sould like one of those bloggers/commenters that like to trump up if not flat out lie about their public service for the sake of one-upmanship. No one here can believe or disbelieve you at this point, it’s just words on a blog.
Cute approach, PPTD, right down to using a hidden name to sling personal insults. (That is what you meant by "first-class citizen … so to speak," and your questioning on Ron’s credentials, right? Kind of hard to tell what your point is, after all). Yes, I would advocate the same for child killers. In fact, any murderer deserves to die.
I don’t know how much more clear I need to be.
If you can’t grasp why an at-large cop killer is more pressing an investigative priority than a cold case, there’s really no need to even go on. You just don’t grasp reality all that well.
Yo Philly people, when action is necessary, follow Tina and get the hell outta the way!
Ron Stokes, your statement is as dumbfounding as your ridiculously selfish will. I liken your over simplified call to action to a doctor who treats a patient with a disease by giving them tylenol to treat the symptoms, rather than finding the appropriate treatment for the disease itself. It’s lazy, it’s irresponsible (especially to the medical community as a whole), and it certainly does nothing to prevent the disease from spreading…which it eventually does. Then it starts rearing its ugly head in the form of some other symptom, but this time the tylenol doesn’t work. The patient is literally unnecessarily dying, gets a lawyer, sues the doctor, and the whole situation makes for a bunch of losers. All because the doctor was, as are you, part of the problem, not the solution when in fact he had at his disposal, a wealth of knowledge and a community willing to actually fight the disease.
By the by, if I were you and I were a former cop, I think I would be very careful about promoting vigilante justice in a public forum like this (and more so if I were collecting any sort of benefits from the city). Surely the city would be none to happy to learn about this. Its detrimental to the city and the police force, and the last thing either needs is for you to compound its problems with an embarrassing PR situation.
This is precisely why I didn’t want this to turn into a debate:
Nobody has even tried to explain why a cop killer doesn’t deserve to be executed.
Oh right, that. I was too busy responding to the fact that its not right to say there can be no debate and that bit about a former cop calling for vigilante justice. I forgot to throw out something that should be considered. I actually don’t care if Fatboy is executed (and my indifference about the justice he should face would not change if he were a baby killer). According to FBI crime stats (you can check them out on their site), the murder rate in non-death penalty states has remained lower than the states with the death penalty. On the surface that kind of tells me that the death penalty does not deter murderers. So go ahead and demand fatboy be executed. But in the grand scheme of things, it seems like its not going to stop the next fatboy. And shouldn’t we be striving for that? For once, I think it would be nice if great minds came together and put a greater effort towards stopping murders, rather than stopping a single bleed here or there.
That’s all well and good, but it doesn’t answer my question: Why shouldn’t a cop killer be executed?
If it’s because it won’t deter future killers, that’s not enough. They should still be held accountable for his/her actions, and when those actions involve shooting a cop in the face in broad daylight, then telling your cousin you’ll take more out to protect yourself before fleeing to Miami, the only punishment offering a modicum of accountability is death.
For starters, I don’t condone giving special punishment to a killer just because of his/her victim’s profession. So a cop killer shouldn’t be executed just because he killed a cop. If someone can give me hard evidence that suggests shooting and killing a cop is worse than say, shooting and killing a doctor who works in an ER, or shooting and killing a coach who is able to inspire kids who then stay in school, than I would listen. Until then, murder is murder and I value all the lives of murdered victims equally. As an example, if it had been one of the Dunkin Donut workers killed instead of the cop, I would want his punishment to be the same — as I’m sure that victim’s family would too. But don’t take my word. Ask the hundreds of non-police victims’ families down there about that.
That would actually be interesting. Maybe they could even all get together and decide what happens to murderers. They could serve one year terms. The city could make it a reality tv show and make money off of it. But I digress.
Back to executing this guy, to a very big extent, I’m less concerned about his punishment, as long as he’s killed or locked up forever (or whatever decided upon by the jury of murder victims families). The stats sadly tell me that focusing on the death penalty is not an issue that will make one bit of difference to the city. I’m all for teaching him a lesson. But an execution debate absent a more dominant conversation about how to act to protect people and prevent this from happening again (versus reacting to crime) is a great path for Philly to continue on if it’s aim is to be the a city that strives to be mediocre, at best. The quality of life in Philly will still be the same — unacceptably depressing. (Not to mention it will continue to suck/be the joke in national rankings/articles, tourists will avoid it, and people/business/jobs/money will leave.)
Ahhh Tina… I see your confusion. My apologies. I was not calling for vigilante justice, I was calling for a legal ‘Death Penalty’ to be enforced. I want to be avenged by a jury’s decision stamped by a Judge. I don’t want my killer to be giving a commencement speech at a university 20 years after he kills me! (e.g. Mumia)
Brian, sorry ’bout the debate. Capital Punishment is 100% effective against recidivism. That’s good enuff for me! (Point: Arthur Bremmer was released from prison today… did he not ‘end’ the life of a man?)
Hickey, it is a little scary to see that someone like you is involved with the media is all I can say. But the fact is your arrogance only pales when compared to mainstream media personalities; your tactics and rebuttals are, however, on par with those same personalities. As you are a writer for a newspaper it strikes me that your objectivity, and therefore credibility, has been comprimised by your emotional and culturally trained reaction. You are the product of a notoriously racist and classist city, and its showing. It’s dissapointing at best.
Sorry, Melissa, but what’s scary is that nobody can adequately challenge my stance that a cop killer deserves to die, so, like you so ably did, they toss personal insults around instead.
As a columnist for a newspaper, it worries me little that my objectivity, on a subject I’ve written about, has been compromised. It’s my job to take a side.
Without getting into a debate about whether the death penalty is ever justified, I think the moment you say that one type or class of person’s life is more valuable than another’s — which is, I think, what is being said when one says that anyone who kills a cop deserves to die — you wind up on a very slippery slope. Unless you’re working from the position that all life is equally precious (or worthless), you put yourself in danger of ending up on an Orwellian/Huxleyan path where certain lives become "worth" more or less based on class/wealth/ability (which is, of course, antithetical to the pro-life crowd’s stance, which is, of course, another argument entirely.)
I’m not saying that in a country where the death penalty has been deemed a reasonable form of justice that there aren’t situations where a cop killer shouldn’t be killed. I am saying that making a blanket statement that cop killers universally and unequivocally should be killed in retribution is dangerous.
Yep, it’s totally irresponsible to think that people who are sworn to uphold a civilized society deserve extra protection under the law. You know, like how an assault on a police officer is a heavier charge than an assault on a civilian.
Kind of odd how society has continued to function with that “Orwellian/Huxleyan” inequity on the books.
Thanks, everybody, for helping me see the error of my ways!
Hickey, I wasn’t insulting you, so sorry if that’s how you took it. I was instead pointing out the trend in the media today of alot of bluster and few facts. So far you’ve only expressed your emotional opinion, not facts.
Here’s some facts then to show why no one should be executed by the State (meaning, of course, governing bodies). First of all, consider the vociferous calls for moratorium, initiated by the American Bar Association, the ACLU, and independent states like Illinois. Studies performed by the Bar Association reveal an inherint problem in the system with racism and bias toward class, and calls for a moratorium pending revisions to the implimentation of the state justice system (see link: http://www.abanet.org/moratorium/assessmentproject/pennsylvania.html).
To quote, “Since 1973, the State of Pennsylvania has exonerated at least five death row inmates after they collectively spent over fifty years on death row. ” That means that there are in fact people in this state being executed when they’re innocent. It’s occuring all across the nation, hence the evolution of the Innocence Project.
Now, is this to say that the kid who killed the cop is innocent? I would hazard a guess that probably not. The fact is that the state has no business killing anyone, and the contradiction of executing a criminal for committing the crime of killing another citizen is the biggest piece of hypocracy one could possibly hope for. The fact is, state-sanctioned murder is unethical, no matter who was the victim.
Which brings me to another point. How is it that the police are supplied (or are entitled to, as you argued) a higher standard of justice than the citizens, who lend legitmacy to those police, btw. Your argument suggests that because of their jobs, cops should have preferential treatment in the justice system, thus creating a class-based delivery of justice. In which case, you could then argue that rich people should also have a higher standard of justice because they contribute so much (money) to society, which is a complete fallacy by the way. We then arrive at a biased justice system, corrupt in every way, and completely anti-thetical to democracy. I thought you were a patriot, Brian?
Your move.
“it is a little scary to see that someone like you is involved with the media is all I can say.”
“the fact is your arrogance only pales when compared to mainstream media personalities”
“your objectivity, and therefore credibility, has been comprimised”
“You are the product of a notoriously racist and classist city, and its showing.”
Feel free to backpedal, but each of the above quotes is an insult.
You’ve made clear that you’re among those who wants to solely abolish the death penalty outright. None of your arguments address the single question I’ve been asking all along: Why shouldn’t a cop killer be killed?
Throw all your study links away (somebody who’s been exonorated was not, at any point, a killer; and everybody isn’t innocent) and answer that question. Then, I’d be willing to engage in a moral debate.
Until then, keep on fighting the good fight to keep murderers alive.
You’re a total baby (now that was an insult). If you are a professional who can’t distinguish between criticism and insults, then be it on your own head.
I gave you ample reasons why NO ONE should be killed by the state. This includes cop killers. To repeat, a cop killer shouldn’t be killed by the state because:
1) it’s unethical
2) it creates a heirarchy of unequal justices
3) it’s hypocritical
4) it’s contrary to everything this country is supposed to stand for
Now, as far as a moral debate, let’s distinguish the definitions of moral versus ethical beliefs. As a general rule, morals are internalized beliefs and ethics are socially upheld rules of conduct.
You may be having a moral debate, no doubt; I’m arguing with the ethics of the matter.
Queen takes pawn.
Some of us, even the apparently infantile, have work to do today, so I’ll leave it at this:
You’ve argued that there shouldn’t be a death penalty, and it’s an old, tired argument that goes round-and-round like the abortion debate. Meanwhile, I’m asking why the capital-punishment system shouldn’t be fixed, rather than abandoned, so cop killers can be executed.
That way, we won’t have to deal with ill-intentioned do-gooders standing up for murderers anymore; we’ll have a functioning system.
Wow, excellent rebuttal.
Now who’s backpeddaling?
Our current system does in fact execute accused cop-killers, but even you’ve conceded that it’s not functioning. You are just now asking why the system shouldn’t be fixed; before you were just screaming for blood. I’ve also offered research to illustrate why the system of eye-for-an-eye style justice should in fact be abandoned, a far more compelling argument that what you’ve supplied.
So if it’s a tired old debate, then I suppose you have some fresh, new insights and answers? The only one standing for murderers I see here is you, in that you support and approve of state-sanctioned murder. But abortion is wrong, of course.
Since you’re slinking away from this now….
Mate
I think it’s cute how you liken this all to a game. But it’s not a game. People are getting mowed down in Philly, including cops, who get shot in the face at 10:30 a.m. Yet all you can do is harp on how there are inequities in the death-penalty system. (How the fact that more death-row inmates are black has anything to do with the Cassidy murder escapes me. But I’m sure you have a pre-scripted response that you can flower up with some witty words.)
I merely acknowledged problems in the system to keep this debate civilized, as middle ground, but since you think it’s so fun to play cute, I can’t do that anymore.
Your attitude disgusts me. You have a clear agenda and can’t see through the talking points you were provided, or looked up on the Innocence Project’s Web site, to even understand my point. You don’t know nearly as much as you pretend to, Melissa.
Yes, I stand for state-sanctioned murder. There’s no rationale that can convince me that capital punishment should be abandoned altogether, regardless of the shame tactics your ilk uses to try and convince me otherwise. I don’t need statistics to know what is right, and what is wrong. Since I’m slinking away from this now, allow me to close by saying:
Executing a cop killer is right.
And you are wrong.
Um, I never said anything about blacks in prisons. But if your conscience supplied that there, well…
All you have done successfully here is jump on the bandwagon in playing on the hysterical fears of the people, as are those of YOUR ilk in the mainstream media. As an aside, there is a shelf life to this craze, and its rapidly approaching. The mainstream media made their careers, and most likely fortunes, in these limited moments in the sun; for those who pantomime the sentiment and rhetoric, I fear may not find as much success and may be burning more bridges than can be afforded. But I digress…
I’m not trying to convince you; I’m using you to explify how irrational the arguments of the right-wing are in these matters.
You’ve played beautifully.
No, all I’ve done successfully is use my position as a professional columnist and editor to share, with the readers, my opinions on what should happen to cop killers.
In my field, there’s no shelf-life on that. But there certainly is one for snarky blog commenters who think they know oh-so-much but merely parrot talking points, so desperate, but unable, to actually break from the pack and think for themselves.
Keep up the great work, Melissa. You’re a credit to society.
Kill the SOB immediately. I honestly can’t believe people are even arguing over this.
NAH-UH
this was fun.