It seems like just another Tuesday. Early spring sunlight shines through the dingy windows of the number 17 bus as it makes its early morning prowl from South Philly to Center City. As usual, the seats are filled to capacity, leaving standing room only. But what makes this Tuesday morning commute different is the nonstop conversation among the riders on a single topic: the war in Iraq.

"I can't believe it. Those kids getting killed are just babies," says a well-dressed, middle-aged African-American woman. "They told 'em that this was going to be quick, that they had an advantage -- but they're already dying."

"We should've never been involved in this mess," says another African-American woman sitting beside her. "What did Saddam Hussein ever do to us? This war is totally unnecessary."

During the 20-minute ride, other African Americans, some sitting nearby, others three and four rows back, offer their opinions on the new war in Iraq, then just seven days old.

"George Bush wasn't even elected," snorts an older man dressed in rumpled jeans. His coat is torn and badly frayed in places, but his necktie is straight. "He has no business leading us all into madness." The white woman sitting next to him stares silently out the window.

At the end of March, national polling based on interviews conducted in the first days of the aggression showed that African Americans were as much as three times more likely to oppose President George W. Bush's decision to go to war in Iraq than white Americans. According to a New York Times/CBS News poll, 78 percent of white respondents said they approved of Bush's handling of the situation, while just 37 percent of African Americans took that same stance. In the same poll, 59 percent of African Americans said they disapproved of the president's handling of the war, while only 17 percent of white Americans concurred. Another poll conducted by The Washington Post and ABC News found that 61 percent of black American respondents were opposed to the "United States having gone to war with Iraq," compared with 20 percent of white Americans. A separate poll organized by the Pew Research Center showed that blacks are clearly more divided than whites on the U.S. decision to use force in Iraq. And, not surprisingly, polling also showed that only around 34 percent of blacks approve of the job President Bush is doing overall, compared with nearly 75 percent of whites.

A few state polls were conducted prior to the start of the war, but not in Pennsylvania. This week, however, now that Operation Iraqi Freedom has begun, the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute will release a poll examining the range of opinions among Pennsylvania residents. Using Quinnipiac's methodology, pollster Clay Richards says that only 1,000 respondents are surveyed. Of that number, he says, less than 100 are black. "That's just too few to break out with any accuracy," he says. As a result, this poll will not be able to offer any conclusive breakdown between races. But Richards promises that it will provide a breakout of Philadelphia voters who support or oppose the war. Seasoned Philadelphia pollsters like Dr. Terry Madonna, director for The Center for Politics and Public Affairs at Millersville University, believe that the national poll numbers may, in fact, be inconsistent in this city.

"The war is not as popular in Philly as it is in places where there are fewer African Americans and self-described liberals," Madonna says. "African Americans are showing only 25 percent in support of this war in every national poll that's been conducted. And, basically, people in Philadelphia are more skeptical of Bush and the war, in general. They are more overwhelmingly Democrat and more ideologically liberal -- and that goes for both blacks and whites."

Well-known WPHT-AM talk radio host Dom Giordano, who has been on the air in Philadelphia since 1987, says that he is a strong proponent of the war in Iraq -- along with his mostly white listeners.

"I actually think, based on my listeners and callers, that the numbers of those who support the war are actually higher, more like in the 75 to 80 percent range," he says. "Among blacks, I'd say it's about 40 to 50 percent. But I think our listeners are supportive of the president in general, and they feel that the antiwar side is just not making a case.

"But I have found that among both blacks and whites who oppose the war, most often they say that Bush was selected, not elected, and that's where this antagonism is really coming from," Giordano says.

Giordano says that most of his listeners are whites residing in the suburbs, specifically in Montgomery and Bucks counties, which he describes as "the heartland." In Philadelphia proper, he says, one finds the most opposition to the war in neighborhoods like Germantown, Mt. Airy and Center City -- areas with significantly mixed populations.

"Personally," he says, "I think this war is absolutely necessary. And it's not about the liberation of the Iraqi people. It's about Saddam Hussein and his weapons of mass destruction. Frankly, this is just another stop in the war on terror. I grew up in South Philly and I don't want to have to be looking over my shoulder all the time."

Reggie Bryant, host of a daily talk show on WHAT-AM, says that his almost exclusively African-American listeners are vehemently opposed to the war -- but, then again, so is he.

"There's a bias in my audience, but I welcome someone who is both pro-war and articulate -- which is very unlikely," Bryant says wryly. "A lot of people are talking about opposing the war, but they're supporting the troops. To me, that's an oxymoron. Today, I asked my listeners on both sides of the issue to call in with their comments. Of 31 calls, only one was pro-war -- and I disemboweled him."

Bryant says that during that show, one antiwar caller made an observation that he found particularly relevant.

"This caller pointed out that one of the biggest problems is that we now have highly visible black folks at the forefront of this war," he says. What he was saying, Bryant explains, is that until now, black Americans were not considered to be part of the perceived "American establishment." Some blacks have felt this racial separateness has shielded them from general animus often directed at white Americans by foreigners. "Before, the enemy would say, ŒWe have no beef with you.' But now, with Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice in such prominent roles, it has probably endangered black soldiers."

While blacks and whites in the U.S. debate the wisdom of war, practically every morning, Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks, one of America's most highly regarded -- and visible -- black soldiers, holds a daily briefing for international journalists at U.S. Central Command Headquarters (CentCom) in Doha, Qatar. Most mornings, Brig. Gen. Brooks appears to be one of only two African Americans in a room with nearly 100 others. (The other African American usually seen is a young soldier who spends most of his time kneeling on the floor, toting the unwieldy microphone that the journalists speak into.) Brig. Gen. Brooks, deputy director of operations for CentCom, graduated first in his class at West Point and comes from a long line of distinguished American soldiers. His brother, Leo Brooks Jr., is a brigadier general who is currently commandant of cadets at West Point. His father, also a former brigadier general, is most notable in Philadelphia for the role he played during the MOVE confrontation in 1985. At that time, he was the city's managing director under the leadership of Mayor Wilson Goode.

Now retired and living in Virginia, Brooks Sr. was terse when asked about the prominent role his son is playing in this war.

"My son, though in the public eye and adamantly so, is not a hero," says Brooks. He chooses his words carefully and speaks slowly. "Those young people getting shot at and even killed are far more deserving of public recognition. I will not exploit the hunger for knowledge, nor slip into the gloat for my son or my family, while other families weep. When the war is over, I will speak."

Edward Turzanski, a white professor of political science at La Salle University, says that he's skeptical about all polls -- including the recent national ones -- but he surmises that the extremes in the findings may have a lot to do with the general mistrust of the government often found in the black community.

"I think the polls reflect mistrust of not only the Bush administration, but also government as an institution," he says. "Whether that changes when we hear more from Iraqis about what happened to them under Saddam Hussein or not remains to be seen. Then the pollsters might ask, ŒShould something have been done about that oppression?' And the black numbers might come up. But there might be such overall distrust of George Bush that black Americans say, ŒI don't care what comes out of his mouth -- I just don't trust him.'"

For more than 20 years, Mike Scott, a white Center City attorney, has been living in the comfortable Montgomery County community of Wynnewood. He says he opted to live there because the schools were better for the three children he was raising with his wife. These days, Scott says he's losing sleep many nights because he has been internalizing his strong disapproval of the war.

At 52, Scott says he has clear memories of the Vietnam War and the days when he felt that his youth shielded him from accountability.

"I was only 22 or 24 at that time," Scott says. "I felt like I wasn't responsible for what was going on. But now I do. George Bush is about my age, and it's my generation who should be making this community better -- but we're not."

Lewis Williams is a regular at Woody's Barbershop, a longstanding neighborhood hangout in Wynnefield. Customers know that any time they venture into Woody's, they will be swept up in hours of deep, probing conversations -- mostly political. Lately, nearly all talk has turned to the war in Iraq.

"I fully support the war -- now that we're there," says Williams, a black Vietnam War veteran. "I believe that Saddam Hussein has committed atrocities far beyond what we know now. My position is that we should never allow another Idi Amin or Hitler on the face of the earth. And if the United Nations does not help with these situations, it's up to us, as moral people of the United States, to make the decisions. To allow Saddam Hussein to reign for another 10 years is unacceptable. I didn't vote for George W. Bush, but I believe whoever is in office is in charge. Frankly, I don't believe that America is safe anymore. But Colin Powell, Dick Cheney and the president of the United States are always thinking about that, too."

"Military minds think differently than other minds," says proprietor Robert "Woody" Woodard, responding to Williams' comments. "It's obvious, the only person who's gonna win is Bush -- this is all planned. It comes down to greed. It even says in the Bible, ŒThe love of money is the root of all evil.' Frankly, nobody in here in this barbershop is really pro-war."

Bob Smith, staff coordinator for the Brandywine Peace Community, is a white American adamantly opposed to the war. Formed in 1977, Brandywine Peace Community is a faith-based peace activist group, committed to war resistance. Since the start of Operation Iraqi Freedom, Smith says he has organized 15 antiwar rallies and two non-violent acts of civil disobedience in the Philadelphia region. He admits, though, that on each occasion, whites have turned out in much higher numbers than blacks.

"There are historical reasons [for this] having to do with the distinctions people make between the government and the country," he says. "I think that generally whites equate the country as being the government, but people of dissenting value -- like myself -- do not make that equation. I think, on the other hand, that blacks think that Bush is the government and that this is his war."

Last week, faculty members at Lincoln University School of Social Science and Behavioral Studies held a forum for students to explore issues on the Middle East. Of course, talk of the war in Iraq was a significant part of the conversation.

"I think part of the reason that there are tremendous differences [between blacks and whites] in terms of support for the war is consistent with the lack of support on the whole that African Americans feel here, in this country," says Dr. Patricia Joseph, chair of the school's sociology and anthropology department. "One of the female students [at the forum] questioned a supporter of the war about how the United States government can justify embarking on a war to eliminate the oppression of people in foreign countries when it is apparently indifferent to the issues of oppression that African Americans face, right here at home. Issues like poverty, unemployment, racial profiling and racism in general."

Joseph points out that because many African Americans face these situations on a daily basis, it often prompts young, underprivileged African Americans to enlist in the armed services, hoping for better opportunities.

Statistics show that currently blacks make up about 21 percent of all U.S. military personnel, but only 13 percent of the U.S. population. African-American women account for half of all of the Army's enlisted women.

"When they went in, I don't believe they thought they'd be standing in Baghdad with a gun in their hand," Joseph says. "And African Americans know that, based on all the statistics, they're most likely to be on the front lines and the casualties will happen to them first. On the whole, a lot of African Americans still feel disenfranchised in this country. They're not feeling a lot of inclusion and, disproportionately, they know they're the ones who stand to lose the most."

Feelings in both the black and white communities are clearly mixed and nothing is absolute. While the polls say that blacks are more likely to oppose this war, blacks in full support are getting some attention.

On March 30, Rev. Lonnie Herndon, a black Baptist minister, held special Sunday services to honor the soldiers in Iraq at his West Philly house of worship, the Church of Christian Compassion. Local television stations Channel 6 and Channel 10, learning of his plans, made a beeline to record the pageantry. During the two sermons, before a congregation of around 800 and amidst a sea of yellow ribbons, Rev. Herndon encouraged his predominantly black members to put aside their political differences in order to support the troops and President Bush.

"The best energy from a Christian standpoint is to encourage [my congregation] to pray," Rev. Herndon says. "At this time, while we're in war, we need to be united. Party differences shouldn't divide us. Regardless of who they voted for, President Bush is the man in charge, he's our leader -- and it's important to support our leader."

A Gallup poll analysis published last week shows that since the Gulf War in 1991, blacks and liberals have shown the biggest decline among all Americans in support for war. The poll surveyed 2,028 adults -- blacks and whites, men and women, across a wide income range, with and without college educations, and in all parts of the country. In every category except senior citizens and Republicans, pollsters recorded at least some decline in support for Operation Iraqi Freedom versus the Gulf War.

A statistical analysis showed that support for both the 1991 conflict and the current war was strongly related to presidential job approval. Since the November 2000 presidential election, when the Supreme Court ultimately decided the outcome, many blacks have openly taken issue with the legitimacy of George W. Bush's presidency. The report stops just short of suggesting that these attitudes may be contributing to blacks' overall disapproval of Bush's current war policy.

"African Americans have always had the ability to put our differences aside," Rev. Herndon said. "To be divided now would cause further hindrance to the cause: to get this evil leader out of the country. Even with all the ills of politics, this time they really aren't important."

Rev. Herndon, an Air Force member stationed at Langley Air Force base in Hampton, Va., from the late 1980s to the early 1990s, says that having been a military man, he considers himself partial to the armed forces. "I know what it's like," he says. "It still holds a special place in my heart."

As the war in Iraq rages on, folks in Philadelphia will continue to debate it in bars, barbershops, churches and, of course, on city buses.

"I don't think George Bush is a bad president," says a black woman, strap-hanging on the number 17 as it turns onto Market Street. "But he may have made a bad decision, taking us into this war that the U.N. didn't even approve of."

"They're going to have to spend a whole lot of money on this thing, at our expense," replies a man standing next to her. "We need that money here, for schools and jobs and things like that."

"Hell," says a younger man, also black, seated a few rows away. "Everybody knows that this war is just gonna make it tougher to be black in America. After all the fighting is done, and the soldiers start coming home looking for jobs, ain't going to be any. I just wonder who'll be supporting this shit then."