June 19–26, 1997

20 questions

Wallace Shawn

Background

Wallace Shawn's curmudgeonly voice is so familiar from his roles in Manhattan, ThePrincess Bride, and My Dinner with Andre that hearing it on my phone immediately makes me laugh. He apologizes for calling late because his alarm clock could not alarm him. He's currently resting up in New York City after a long run promoting The Designated Mourner, a new film based on Shawn's play, directed by David Hare and starring Mike Nichols. Educated at Harvard and Oxford, Shawn's heady, dramatic comedies made a name for him in the New York City theatrical underground of the '80s. At age 40, Shawn's growing consciousness of social injustice led him to write plays that challenge the status quo yet maintain his disarming, nervous wit. Shawn's works — from Aunt Dan and Lemon, The Fever and Mourner — have all been critiqued in the new book by W.D. King, Writing Wrongs: The Work of Wallace Shawn (Temple University Press).

What do you do to keep in shape?

I actually haven't done any exercise since I was 4; haven't moved a muscle. I try to remind myself to walk around a little. But jogging looks so cowardly, as if [people are] running from death. The clothes are terrible and joggers give you terrible looks when you're in their way because their health is so important. But I think if I was more physically fit, I'd write different kinds of plays, maybe one where people moved around more.

What's inspired you to create theatrical works?

I've written little stories since I was a child. When I was 10, a teacher gave me materials on the death of Socrates and asked me to write a play. I wrote my first real play, Four Meals in May, in 1967 after I saw a sign advertising a contest in which the winning play would be performed. I thought, "I'm going to enter that contest. I'm going to write plays." I realized then that was what I'd like to do for the rest of my life. Bizarre, yes, but it's considerably more bizarre that I'm still doing it.

How did you get Mike Nichols to act on film for the first time [in The Designated Mourner]? Do you believe, like some critics say, that he's sort of impersonating you?

I knew him a little. Hearing [certain people's] voices, as one does when writing, it was Nichols' voice I heard in the later stages of my writing. As for Nichols impersonating me,there are certain characteristics about my characters that people believe are me because of the way I write and because of the way I wrote my character in My Dinner With Andre. There are stylistic influences.

What's the genesis of The Designated Mourner?

I don't work that way. That question might apply to some, but it doesn't to me. I don't have a great idea and carry it out.

Then how it does work?

Well, it's really none of anybody's business. I'm also superstitious in talking [about it]. Roughly speaking, I write first and ask questions later. After a while, I'll ask myself if I've written anything that has meaning. What sense can be made of this. I don't think [the process] is in my power.

Where and when were the lines of highbrow and lowbrow culture drawn for you?

I used those ideas for Jack [Nichols' character in The Designated Mourner]. I'm not quite sure if I know what those words mean. For instance, I finished listening to Ian MacKellan's 18-hour reading of Homer's The Odyssey on cassette in my car. Is that highbrow or lowbrow? It's magnificently structured. It's about great monsters eating people and having their heads squashed.

Is there any media that's particularly annoying to you?

Most of what's produced in films and television is evil right off the bat because it creates the illusion that all is well; that the status quo is fine. Actually the world is unjust and cruel. People are being tortured and killed every day to preserve the so-praised status quo. Television and film also luxuriate in prejudice, corruption, bloodlust. I'd be willing to divide things into nauseating and non-nauseating than highbrow and lowbrow.

How and when was your politic formed?

I didn't really have political understanding or convictions until I was certainly 40. Before that I was a bland armchair liberal — everybody should have a chance to be happy and not be oppressed. The greatest radicalizing influence was my own work. When I wrote Aunt Dan and Lemon, it was truly about a connection between the brutality of the Vietnam War and all brutality; that human lack of compassion comparable to that of a Nazi torturing a Jew. Seeing this play of my own made me think I should read more of what my country has been up to. Subjects like our involvement in Latin America — which previously didn't interest me — had great resonance. I read Karl Marx and Noam Chomsky. I even took myself to some of the countries where the crimes had been committed, where tortures were enacted with our tax dollars, where heroic people were truly fighting the status quo. I was radicalized. Come the Reagan era you began to see it in your own neighborhood. I saw my middle-class neighborhood invaded by the rich, and poor people were thrown out in the streets. It took a lot to get through to me.

Similar themes are addressed in The DesignatedMourner. Was this educational process a direct influence?

Definitely. I was heavily propagandized. Chomsky writes eloquently that the most brainwashed citizens are in fact the so-called elite. The best education equals the best brainwashing.

There is a new book of essays on your work, Writing Wrongs, that is simply glowing. Do you know the author?

I'm not unfriendly with him. He's a man who God-knows-why picked me to write about. It's true. He did. I have the book. It's right next to me. I haven't had the guts to get past page 24. It's odd to read a book about yourself, so I'm taking it very slowly. I'm looking toward the millennium for a finish date.

The Designated Mourner is showing at the Ritz Five and the Ritz Twelve.